Author Topic: Rise of Skywalker  (Read 794 times)

maxbeedo

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Re: Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2019, 05:19:19 PM »
I also didn't think this looked like it would be any improvement whatsoever over what I consider to be one of the worst movies of all time.  Rey flipping onto a TIE only makes me think "that pilot is an idiot for flying so low".  Lando showing up only makes me think "Keep getting them checks Mr. Williams, but you should've been here while Han was still alive, since he's the only character you're linked to."  I don't trust their writing ability to make Palpatine coming back make sense, or that they wouldn't Disney-fy him like all the other First Order characters in TLJ (i.e. bumbling idiotic comic relief).  They also need to prove they can write a coherent story that isn't an obvious collection of set pieces they wanted in the film with no idea how to connect them, but a trailer isn't going to show that anyway.


You're one of those Reddit people that there was no way this was going to please, aren't you?

There's an extremely small chance, but not based on any evidence since Disney took over.  There's a very distinct gap between true fans, who hated TLJ, and those who really don't care about Star Wars at all, who can turn off their brains and like the film for shallow reasons.  If you're in the latter category... fine.  Grab your popcorn and enjoy the film.  It's easy to not care about things.  It's much harder to watch something you love become an abomination by people who clearly don't know what Star Wars was about. 

I've never posted on Reddit though. 

Timinator

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Re: Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2019, 05:32:04 PM »
I'm possibly a casual fan who ate the popcorn and got some enjoyment out of TLJ.  There were bits I enjoyed, bits that were duller, but never felt desire to analyse things.

I wonder how this trilogy will be viewed to kids who are just kids right now.  My daughters seeing a female lead will be interesting. Will they pretend to have lightsabres as much as pretending to be regular disney princesses.  Also not having decades between watching the movies will be interesting.

Pixie

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Re: Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2019, 06:08:39 PM »
There's a very distinct gap between true fans, who hated TLJ

Wait. Are you suggesting that if you didn't hate TLJ you're not a "true fan" of Star Wars?

If so, you can just fuck right off forever with that bullshit.

Timinator

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Re: Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2019, 06:44:52 PM »
its always no where near Phantom menace levels of meh

Lego

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Re: Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2019, 06:59:14 PM »
I also didn't think this looked like it would be any improvement whatsoever over what I consider to be one of the worst movies of all time.  Rey flipping onto a TIE only makes me think "that pilot is an idiot for flying so low".  Lando showing up only makes me think "Keep getting them checks Mr. Williams, but you should've been here while Han was still alive, since he's the only character you're linked to."  I don't trust their writing ability to make Palpatine coming back make sense, or that they wouldn't Disney-fy him like all the other First Order characters in TLJ (i.e. bumbling idiotic comic relief).  They also need to prove they can write a coherent story that isn't an obvious collection of set pieces they wanted in the film with no idea how to connect them, but a trailer isn't going to show that anyway.


You sir are a dumbfuck. Not to mention using the "only true Scotsman" fallacy. I saw the original Star Wars, in theaters, original run, 54 weeks in a row, without missing a week. I own bookoo merch. I've seen and enjoyed every movie a million times over. But no, I can't be a "true" fan, because I didn't hate the movie you did. As Pixie said, you can fuck right off with that bullshit you incel.


You're one of those Reddit people that there was no way this was going to please, aren't you?

There's an extremely small chance, but not based on any evidence since Disney took over.  There's a very distinct gap between true fans, who hated TLJ, and those who really don't care about Star Wars at all, who can turn off their brains and like the film for shallow reasons.  If you're in the latter category... fine.  Grab your popcorn and enjoy the film.  It's easy to not care about things.  It's much harder to watch something you love become an abomination by people who clearly don't know what Star Wars was about. 

I've never posted on Reddit though.

Lego

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Re: Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2019, 07:01:25 PM »
You sir are a dumbfuck. Not to mention using the "only true Scotsman" fallacy. I saw the original Star Wars, in theaters, original run, 54 weeks in a row, without missing a week. I own bookoo merch. I've seen and enjoyed every movie a million times over. But no, I can't be a "true" fan, because I didn't hate the movie you did. As Pixie said, you can fuck right off with that bullshit you incel.
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[/size]Bloody formatting.

maxbeedo

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Re: Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2019, 07:38:09 PM »
There's a very distinct gap between true fans, who hated TLJ

Wait. Are you suggesting that if you didn't hate TLJ you're not a "true fan" of Star Wars?

If so, you can just fuck right off forever with that bullshit.

Yep, I'm saying that.  I'm saying that to your face... over the internet.  I dare you to try to defend TLJ.  The argument will inevitably end with you giving up and saying "Well, I don't really care anyway" or "Well, I liked it, superficially, and that's all that matters", as I'm well-prepared to go much further defending my hill than you are at yours.  Keep that in mind if you want to pick a fight.  Millions of people have had the opportunity to try to offer counterarguments to the thousands of critiques of the film, and none have done so without offering the above as their fundamental stance, because they lack an understanding of the place Star Wars holds in modern culture and why people would be insulted by TLJ in the first place, and how TLJ attempts to tear it down for the sake of tearing it down, without offering any alternatives.  There always was a lot more to Star Wars than lightsabers, unique sounds, great music, and cool ships.  I wouldn't call it a religion, but there are certainly philosophical leanings and human truths behind it (and a lot of the related media) that goes far beyond simple "popcorn fare", which is why the original films catered to everyone, everywhere.  If you like the films because you think they sound good and look good, because that's all you ever want in a film, that's fine, but then we're not talking on the same wavelength. 

Lego

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Re: Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2019, 07:42:31 PM »
I don't care about an internet challenge from a retarded incel like you or what you think. You are dead wrong, and you're a dumbfuck to boot. I'm not going to spend an incredible amount of time on an idiot like you. Have a good evening.

Pixie

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Re: Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2019, 07:48:56 PM »
Dude, first... put down the Cheetos before you hurt yourself.

It's not a religion. It's not a philosophy. George Lucas isn't the Second Coming or some genius with deep insight into the human spirit. It's a series of movies that follow a very, very formulaic and safe 3-act structure that's been done a million times, and Lucas isn't even especially good at it.

Some are better than others. But I am as much a fan as anyone, and I have enjoyed all the movies to one degree or another. Hating one of them doesn't make you some golden child of fandom. It just makes you a fan who likes things differently. You're not special. You have no special exclusive claim to the title of "fan" of the series.

Disney saved a floundering IP. Get over it.

syn

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Re: Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2019, 08:05:33 PM »
 :o 

i liked the trailer. but, star wars trailers are almost always good even when the movies aren't.

I think the title is kinda wacky.  This is the last one, right?  Or at least the last one to follow the Skywalker family?  So why the "Rise" of Skywalker?

it threw me too at first, but the entire 9 piece set is supposed to be about the skywalkers, isn't it? the subtitle makes more sense in that light. think "the dark knight rises"... also the last in a trilogy.
Buttigieg on Trump: "It is the nature of grotesque things that you can't look away."  5/19/19

Pixie

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Re: Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2019, 09:48:41 PM »
Rise of Skywalker because Rey Skywalker ascends to the imperial throne and rules the galaxy for 1000 years.



Wut? >.>

Lego

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Re: Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2019, 10:15:13 PM »
lol now that would be a swerve

maxbeedo

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Re: Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2019, 10:29:07 PM »
I don't care about an internet challenge from a retarded incel like you or what you think. You are dead wrong, and you're a dumbfuck to boot. I'm not going to spend an incredible amount of time on an idiot like you. Have a good evening.

I believe that falls under "Well, I don't really care anyway."  I'm prepared to debate and listen to your arguments (my "true fans" statement was imprecise and certainly deserves an explanation, see below).  It's puzzling you would love the original trilogy and then love the film that tells you you're an idiot for doing so (if you cared about Luke as a character).  But your response is pretty much the same as the current filmmakers give when faced with criticism, and this is not my first internet scuffle regarding this topic, so I've heard worse.

Dude, first... put down the Cheetos before you hurt yourself.

It's not a religion. It's not a philosophy. George Lucas isn't the Second Coming or some genius with deep insight into the human spirit. It's a series of movies that follow a very, very formulaic and safe 3-act structure that's been done a million times, and Lucas isn't even especially good at it.

Some are better than others. But I am as much a fan as anyone, and I have enjoyed all the movies to one degree or another. Hating one of them doesn't make you some golden child of fandom. It just makes you a fan who likes things differently. You're not special. You have no special exclusive claim to the title of "fan" of the series.

Disney saved a floundering IP. Get over it.

Well there's certainly something there given all of the comparisons to Joseph Campbell and The Hero's Journey, and occasionally Buddhism.  You are correct that Lucas has certainly not been the best at showing it or explaining it, and many parts of why Star Wars "is great" has far more to do with the people around him than Lucas himself.  For whatever reason, it became bigger than what Lucas himself could describe, with many other people taking parts and expanding on them, but it definitely was his intention. 

"I see Star Wars as taking all the issues that religion represents and trying to distill them down into a more modern and easily accessible construct [] I put the Force into the movie in order to try to awaken a certain kind of spirituality in young people more a belief in God than a belief in any particular religious system. I wanted to make it so that young people would begin to ask questions about the mystery." ---George Lucas, Time Magazine, 1999. 

The Sith/Jedi Master/Slave Morality dynamic is a pretty big key too, but it's not delved into very much in the films, as they focus more on Luke's "coming of age" journey.  There's also Technology vs. Nature (Luke trusting in the Force vs. the Targeting Computer, Ewoks vs. Imperials, etc.).  The films absolutely made me ask a lot of questions as a kid, and my worldview has been challenged many times by various Star Wars-related media and what those questions made me seek out in philosophy (most recently Kreia in KOTOR2).  So when I say "true fans", I'm talking about fans that are constantly thinking about Star Wars, what it means, what can be learned from it, where are the arguments on both sides, how the lessons therein might apply in real life, etc., fans who actually have some stake in the themes and meanings behind the films.  TLJ was a very, very deep kind of insult with how much it threw away (how they changed Luke, the beliefs of the Jedi or Sith, the total lack of ideologies for the Resistance or First Order, everything set up in TFA, etc.), along with being a very boring and bad film in general with the number of immersion-breaking illogical plot decisions.  I also understand that the casual movie-goer may not recognize or care about the ideological struggle going on (which is a whole other rabbit hole).

"Saved" is an interesting word.  Certainly video game fans wouldn't agree, given how EA has treated the license (though we'll see how Jedi Fallen Order turns out).  Lots of cool ideas were still being brought into Star Wars in other media.  I could've easily lived without any of the Disney films, but I'm not 100% against the idea of "someone" making more films.

Lego

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Re: Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2019, 10:39:38 PM »
I believe that falls under "Well, I don't really care anyway."


No, it falls under I have many better things to do than to debate "true fandom" with an incel troll. If I had the inclination I could spend volumes debating you and make you look foolish. I simply have no desire to do so. I could give two fucks less that some internet tough guy doesn't believe me. Your ego is out of control on this. You, like Trump followers, believe your flawed logic is unassailable and your opinions are facts. Max, it's time to go tell Mommy you're being like that on the internet again.

maxbeedo

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Re: Rise of Skywalker
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2019, 12:11:43 AM »
I believe that falls under "Well, I don't really care anyway."

No, it falls under I have many better things to do than to debate "true fandom" with an incel troll. If I had the inclination I could spend volumes debating you and make you look foolish. I simply have no desire to do so. I could give two fucks less that some internet tough guy doesn't believe me. Your ego is out of control on this. You, like Trump followers, believe your flawed logic is unassailable and your opinions are facts. Max, it's time to go tell Mommy you're being like that on the internet again.

I'd still be interested in your arguments on why TLJ is a good film. I haven't seen one decent argument for the film anywhere, and thousands of videos and pages condemning it.  You're welcome to just point me to a defense somewhere (as I did in several links above for critiques).  All of the defenses I've seen so far either have every other sentence as "I really liked this" or "yes, this part is terrible, but...", or how individual actors or scenes were cool, but nothing regarding the movie as a whole or in any traditional film-critiquing capacity (there are some arguments against the film I do feel are too nitpicky).  Everyone has their own level of crap they can forgive in a film and still enjoy it, mine just happens to be really strict, specifically for Star Wars.  There might be other fandoms you care about way more than I do that you'd be shocked I'm not offended by something in it.  I also wouldn't mind hearing what Star Wars means to you (or anyone else here), why you watch the films, which might shed light on our differences.  If not, that's fine.