Gamersoasis

General Category => The Argument Chamber => Topic started by: TheMikrobe on May 17, 2017, 11:34:13 AM

Title: UK general election
Post by: TheMikrobe on May 17, 2017, 11:34:13 AM
So we have to take 2 months out of the already impossibly short Brexit negotiations for a pointless snap election. Despite Labour looking slightly more coherent in the last week or so, there is basically no opposition and Brexit seems to have divided the country to almost Trumpian levels.

I keep up with the headlines, but I find I don't really care. I live in a Tory safe seat, so this FPP system means my vote counts for nothing (I try to tell myself that I'm lending weight to the argument for proportional representation), and in the nearly 10 years I've been here I've never felt more like a foreigner than after the Brexit referendum - I realised that I just don't understand the politics of this country.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Kasferatu on May 17, 2017, 01:10:18 PM
That's because this country makes no sense and is full of idiots and worse :(

Honestly, thinking about it is so depressing.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Ray Patean on May 17, 2017, 01:46:19 PM
Hey, it could be worse. You could have Trump leading your country...like we do...

:(
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: TheMikrobe on May 17, 2017, 02:51:17 PM
We've got a robot controlled by a fascist newspaper editor given power by a readership of ignorant fools, and the most powerful faction of a fractured opposition is gathered behind a dithering naif. The checks and balances that give hope that Trump will end and be prevented from his worst excesses don't really exist. No-one in the UK is going to blab intelligence secrets to adversary powers, but they'll divide the country and cut themselves off from their neighbours well before Trump lays the first brick in his wall.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Godji on May 18, 2017, 04:20:58 AM
That's because this country makes no sense and is full of idiots and worse :(

Damn, reading this I thought you had moved in France!
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: TheMikrobe on May 18, 2017, 04:59:18 AM
You managed to avoid your fascist... congratulations!
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Godji on May 18, 2017, 07:30:56 AM
Yeah, though unfortunately this outcome is far from shiny either. We avoided fascism by embracing (by default, but still) the ultraliberalism which is the exact cause of fascism rise in France for the last 15 years. I'm personally looking into solutions to leave the country before 2022 when LePen will not only be elected, but at such a level she might have the legislative seats to actually go along with her program.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Godji on May 18, 2017, 07:32:14 AM
You know what they say about France : always 10 years late after the US. Well, our Trump has been delayed, but only by consolidating what will inexorably bring our version to power.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Kasferatu on May 18, 2017, 12:43:23 PM
I'd say you are welcome here, but apparently there's an "overwhelming mandate" saying you aren't :(
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Timinator on May 18, 2017, 06:52:08 PM
What are your options/preferences if you do leave?  Would you go somewhere that primarly speaks French? or just anywhere that is a good fit?
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Godji on May 19, 2017, 04:40:47 AM
It does feel like the whole planet is going to shit tbf. That said, some part of it are going there more slowly than others, that will have to do.
Canada is actually looking like a strong candidate. We're going there as tourists for three weeks this summer, but re-evaluating if that's a place where we feel we could live is actually more than just a second thought behind the trip: we've actually lived there already*, we speak both languages, we actually know quite a few people there who left France too (moving to Quebec is almost cliché for our generation in France), job in at least my sector would not be an issue, and at least from an external point of view they seem a bit further from becoming a fascist country than France or other potenrial candidates are.
North European countries used to appear like progressist paradises too, but cracks are appearing, and it just would be much harder for us on a language/cultural aspect.



*that was the year I first stumbled on the diabloii.net single player forums, and met many of the people who funded this community :D
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Godji on May 19, 2017, 04:46:41 AM
I'd say you are welcome here, but apparently there's an "overwhelming mandate" saying you aren't :(

We actually actively researched this around 2007-2008. Both Aurore and me were looking for jobs, and decided to look in UK as much as in France. Thing is, we had 2-3 years of professional experience, so nothing very differentiating yet, and at least the few job interviews I did, answers I got was that I was a pretty good candidate, but not better by such a margin that it would justify going through the hassle of recruiting a foreigner. 2-3 year of experience in software development was too common. I might have found if I had persisted a bit, but this was much more of a dead-end for my wife.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Cluck Kent on June 06, 2017, 10:17:53 AM
Canada, baby Canada.

My wife was until recently an IT recruiter. She is currently recruiting exec positions for a big 5 bank. If you're looking for any information on the job market, she can help. If you're in the Toronto area during your 3 week visit let me know.

Ohhhhhh Canada.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: narsica on June 06, 2017, 10:34:11 PM
Canada is awesome. You should totally live here.

Just not in the prairies. The prairies suck hairy goat balls.

Or Toronto.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Godji on June 07, 2017, 10:09:18 AM
Ah, unfortunately, Toronto won't be part of the trip this time. Arriving in Montreal, seeing friends there a few days, then going down the Saint-Laurent, hopefully seeing whales past the fjords, then crossing, and a few days through Gaspésie. Quick rountrip to NY with friends for three days since it will be an occasion to be there for the 4th of July, then back to France.
It's still a bit early to start probing the job market very precisely (though I actually do have meetings with some friends of friends with professional networking in mind)but I will certainly keep your offer in mind Cluck, many thanks!


ANd my apologies for completely hijacking the thread :s
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Kasferatu on June 07, 2017, 11:19:31 AM
Yeah how dare you hijack this thread. We've got misery to deal with this week.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Timinator on June 08, 2017, 08:02:12 PM
The middle of the day as the results are coming in.  Hope you guys aren't having nightmares around midnight.  Looks like (currently) a hung parliament.  No more UKIP seat.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Timinator on June 08, 2017, 10:28:20 PM
I predict May resigns for making things worse.  Next PM calls an election in 2 years to get more stability ..
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: TheMikrobe on June 09, 2017, 06:21:30 AM
Well it was pretty much the result I was hoping for over the last week, would have preferred those Conservative gains in Scotland to either remain SNP or go to Lib Dem or Labour so that a left-wing government was more workable. I expected and was hoping that the LDs would have gained vote share and seats instead of losing more ground.

I think Brexit is still inevitable, but at least now we might stay in the single market and keep freedom of movement and not fuck the economy completely. I'm hoping for a Norway-style resolution, if the UK doesn't back down completely.

May surely can't stay on, but it will probably still be a Conservative government so Boris Johnson as PM??? Jesus Christ!
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: mn4nu on June 09, 2017, 06:52:37 AM
I am not a follower of UK politics at all, but it seems like the last PM called for the Brexit vote, and lost, and now this PM called for elections, and lost.  Were they overconfident or just clueless (or both)?
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: TheMikrobe on June 09, 2017, 07:52:43 AM
Both!

Kas might be able to correct me, but I think it went something like this (BTW Tory = Conservative, like GOP = Republican):

* David Cameron was a fairly moderate leader of a centre-right government. Most moderates on any side of the political spectrum were in favour of remaining in the EU, including (at the time) the now-PM Theresa May.

* Cameron was under-pressure to change the relationship with the EU from the right-wing of his own party plus the even more right-wing UK Independence Party (whose sole reason for being is to leave the EU). These Euro-skeptics were given political weight by the insane right-wing press who dominate the media here and were able to whip up the unthinking masses who consume their bile (this was basically the same as the Breitbart-InfoWars-Fox-Trump effect, i.e. "foreigners and educated elites are the reason you don't have jobs"). Note it's not just the right-wing who are against the EU: Jeremy Corbyn, the current leader of the centre-left Labour party, was also in favour of leaving for ideological reasons related to trade unionism and class war, and he only grudgingly supported the pro-EU side because his party as a whole were on that side.

* Although he was secure enough not to need to do it, Cameron decided to appease these people by holding the referendum he was sure would be firmly in favour of the EU.

* The media fury went into overdrive, and certain pro-EU Tories (Boris Johnson, Michael Gove) campaigned for the Leave side because they thought a narrow Remain win would weaken David Cameron enough that Boris could take over as PM. Yes, these fuckwits actually used a referendum on constitutional issues and international agreements on trade, security, etc. to further their personal ambition and play internal party power games. Theresa May was pro-EU but kept her head down so she wouldn't be tainted no matter what the outcome.

* University students and other young people with the most to lose didn't turn out to vote, but old people romanticising the good old days did. Leave won. Cameron said, literally, "why should I do all the hard shit" and resigned. Johnson and Gove turned their knives on each other. Squeaky clean May was the only viable option for party leader and PM.

* The country descended into a few months of acrimonious bickering and insults between Remoaners and Brexshitters. May moved from a pro-EU position to hard Brexit (i.e. cutting all ties, soft Brexit means keeping some arrangements like tariff-free access to the single market and visa-free movement of workers but in turn having to comply with some EU laws without now having a say in making them). May also went full dictator and decided she could unilaterally decide everything to do with Brexit, but a court case went up to the Supreme Court that forced her to get the consent of parliament (a formality, but the fundamental basis of democracy). The Daily Mail newspaper, which supported Hitler in WWII and has the largest readership of any media outlet, called the judges who made that decision "Enemies of the People".

* She eventually triggered Article 50, i.e. formally told the EU that the UK wanted to begin the process of leaving, which must be concluded within 2 years. At this point the Conservative party had a large enough majority to push through whatever they wanted to do.

* Meanwhile, analysts had realised that whatever the outcome of the Brexit negotiations there would be a period of poor economic performance. The next scheduled election would fall right in the middle of these doldrums, and the ruling Conservatives would be guaranteed to get hammered. Theresa May called a snap election to push back the next scheduled election into what would hopefully be a period of recovery so the Conservatives might be able to win it. Again, a fuckwit put the national interest at risk for party political gain. This was sold as "wanting to increase her mandate", i.e. win an election in which she was the leader instead of being promoted into the role, and also increase the number of seats held by the Tories to make passing bills even easier.

* At that time the polls suggested the Tories would gain up to 100 seats, but May ran the worst possible campaign revealing herself as a charisma-less robot and Labour ran a positive campaign and their leader Corbyn found some previously unseen political leadership skills. The Green Party sacrificed themselves so as not to draw votes away from other anti-Tory parties that had a chance to win. The press continued in their revolting ways, but fortunately it seems like there has been some returning of the senses to the voters. Also young people realised they were going to get screwed over and actually made the arduous walk to the polling stations.

And so we're in this mess.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: mn4nu on June 09, 2017, 02:44:03 PM
Thank you for that excellent summary! 
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Kasferatu on June 09, 2017, 04:45:41 PM
Great summary!
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Sssith on June 14, 2017, 12:54:13 PM
Thumbs up.

Sad to note that you guys are just as screwed up as we are.

Misery loves company.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Timinator on June 14, 2017, 05:48:41 PM
Not quite the same, they could have another election instead of being stuck till its supposed to happen.  The PM will probably realise she cant continue and leave.  Very different to your situation in that regard.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Darkness on September 20, 2017, 05:39:02 PM
Sad to note that you guys are just as screwed up as we are.

I would say we're more screwed, because the UK's EU membership was on singular, far better terms that pretty much any other nation. We had a much sweeter deal and yet most Brexiters didn't grasp that or those that did, were too wrapped up in their petty jingoism to care. We've lost that now. Its all gone. Its never coming back. Even if Brexit is cancelled, we'll have to renegotiate EU membership and we will be busted down to regular membership.

We've screwed ourselves so very, very badly.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: syn on December 11, 2018, 07:12:27 AM
LEAKED: Footage From Inside No. 10 Downing Street! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=Tjp5OmoDYQM)
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Sssith on December 11, 2018, 10:19:31 AM
Well....that was disturbing.

I haven't been following this as closely as I should but I have always found her position on Brexit to be two faced.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Sssith on January 15, 2019, 03:01:51 PM
It is like the UK is trying to one up the absurdity of what is going on in the US government.

For those that don't know May's plan for Brexit just got bush whacked.  Another no confidence vote is set for tomorrow.  The deadline for Brexit is 76 days away.  Finally there is now no plan for how the exit will work.

Our favorite Brits can correct me if I got anything wrong.  But this really like a 'Holy Fucking Shit...WTF do we fucking do now?'  Type of moment.

Meanwhile the President of the US had to declare that he is not, in fact, a Russian agent.  There are now many claims that Trump is destabilizing the US, and has been compromised by Russia.

Two of the main democracies in the World are so freaking insane right now. 

I am more than a bit disturbed by all of this.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Pixie on January 15, 2019, 05:05:01 PM

Meanwhile the President of the US had to declare that he is not, in fact, a Russian agent.

... with the best part being that he waffled and never actually denied it.


Theresa May should just be out without needing a no confidence vote, imo.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: syn on January 15, 2019, 05:40:06 PM

Meanwhile the President of the US had to declare that he is not, in fact, a Russian agent.

... with the best part being that he waffled and never actually denied it.


Theresa May should just be out without needing a no confidence vote, imo.

he forgot to deny it when asked the question by Fox on Sunday. he issued a statement on monday that actually included a denial. better late than never? *snort*
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Kasferatu on January 16, 2019, 01:30:04 AM
The worst thing is she'll easily pass the no confidence motion. There's some severe cognitive dissonance going on to say "We completely reject the deal you've spent 2 years working on" and then "We are confident you'll fix this in 70 days"
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Timinator on January 16, 2019, 04:04:03 AM
There is a difference between saying the deal you have is not good enough (sounds like many different factions not happy for different reasons) but Tories won’t say, let’s just help make Corbyn pm
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Silverthorn on January 16, 2019, 04:09:20 AM
*Mans the Dutch beaches to repel fleeing Britons*

It's a bloody shambles. tbh it really surprised me the Brits voted for Brexit. But there we are.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Darkness on January 16, 2019, 05:53:00 AM
But this really like a 'Holy Fucking Shit...WTF do we fucking do now?'  Type of moment.

Yes. Very much this.

However, it is unlikely that the Government will lose the vote of no confidence. Which is hilarious, given there were 48 letters before Christmas from Tory MPs stating they had no confidence in May but, being in power matters more to the Tories than anything else.

As things stand, the UK is now stuck between two extremes of Remain and a No-Deal leave, both of which are actually shitty scenarios (although No Deal is clearly economically worse) and the political and social fall out will be extreme.

Whatever scenario we get, it remains fact that the actual sociopolitical causes of why people voted leave, will continue to be unaddressed. Because the causes of those problems never were the EU.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: mn4nu on January 16, 2019, 08:19:10 AM
Maybe Britain should build a wall somewhere.  Idiots here think that will solve everything.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Sssith on January 16, 2019, 09:44:01 AM
*Mans the Dutch beaches to repel fleeing Britons*

lol...*gives cookie*

As for a wall I think it should be built in the middle of the channel.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Darkness on January 16, 2019, 09:57:40 AM
We'll get the EU to pay for it.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: mn4nu on January 16, 2019, 12:49:03 PM
We'll get the EU to pay for it.
Classic.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Silverthorn on January 17, 2019, 01:54:33 AM
Like watching a very slow train accident. Terrible, yet impossible to ignore.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Sssith on February 19, 2019, 04:47:12 PM
Epic explanation of Brexit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaBQfSAVt0s
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Silverthorn on February 20, 2019, 01:21:15 AM
John Oliver's comments on Brexit have been great. But skip the boyband. Please.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Darkness on February 22, 2019, 02:21:43 AM
Video not available in my country. :(

Although soon, neither will the internet, food, medical supplies and we're already out of an informed electorate.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Sssith on February 22, 2019, 10:59:30 AM
Yeah...he talked that you guys needed to have a different version because, I guess, there is a UK law that prohibits showing the parliament in a comedy show.

I am sure it contains nothing new to you but it was hysterical.

I read that May is now trying to get a three month extension.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Darkness on February 25, 2019, 02:04:03 AM
She's not trying to get an extension yet but, MPs in her own party are putting pressure on her to rule out a no-deal Brexit.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Sssith on March 13, 2019, 04:25:59 PM
So May stuck out again in Parliament.

I now feel like I am rubber-necking at a traffic accident.  Where the pile up is getting bigger and messier each time I look.  Now a little over two weeks away from the mother of all wrecks.

EU is not going give UK another deal.  The Parliament can't come to an agreement.  UK is going to end up with a hard exit and it is going to be ugly.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: syn on March 13, 2019, 07:57:34 PM
they'll end up with an extension. it's a giant game of chicken at this point.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Darkness on March 19, 2019, 08:00:32 AM
UK is going to end up with a hard exit and it is going to be ugly.

I've my doubts about that. Parliament is opposed to a hard exit.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Sssith on March 26, 2019, 04:05:57 PM
UK leaving the EU: https://imgur.com/gallery/TkHykVA
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Timinator on March 26, 2019, 04:27:37 PM
this is one of the best replies https://i.imgur.com/r5GKZIJ.mp4
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Sssith on March 26, 2019, 04:45:38 PM
If you are familiar with the show then this is gold: https://i.imgur.com/qhRD0ia.gifv
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Pixie on March 26, 2019, 05:16:14 PM
If you are familiar with the show then this is gold: https://i.imgur.com/qhRD0ia.gifv

Perfect. :D
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Sssith on May 10, 2019, 09:32:41 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/VybEeq5.jpg)
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Darkness on May 14, 2019, 07:34:02 AM
Yup.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Sssith on July 23, 2019, 10:15:33 AM
Dear Brothers/Sisters across the pond.  This is not a race to the bottom and you shouldn't feel the need to constantly out do our [US] mismanagement of government.  Did you guys really need to have your own version of Trump?!  I would have happily given you ours, but no, you had to put Mr. Johnson in charge of your country. 

Quote from: NY Times Op Ed Opening Paragraph
Throughout history, chaos has often been a crucible of great leadership. Yet with Britain in the throes of its biggest political crisis since World War II, it will be surprising if that turns out to be the case this time.

How about this one:

Quote from: NY Times Op Ed
...his record as journalist, legislator, London mayor and foreign secretary displays far more bluster than achievement, and a consistent disdain for hard work, probity or the truth.

This is not going to end well.  :(

Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: mn4nu on July 23, 2019, 10:37:45 AM
Dear Brothers/Sisters across the pond.  This is not a race to the bottom and you shouldn't feel the need to constantly out do our [US] mismanagement of government.
I lol'd.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Kasferatu on July 23, 2019, 01:58:15 PM
Would laugh but too busy crying.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: syn on July 23, 2019, 03:27:50 PM
heh... still better than trump.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: Sssith on July 23, 2019, 06:50:25 PM
At this point we are comparing the size our shit and proudly claiming my is bigger and smellier.

They are both awful.

But yes ours is bigger and shittier.

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/r.iugZi271L2EixTx0gM5g--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NzUwO2g9NDcw/https://media-mbst-pub-ue1.s3.amazonaws.com/creatr-uploaded-images/2019-07/8740ff40-ad55-11e9-bf3a-778144bfdc6b)

Twit.
Title: Re: UK general election
Post by: mn4nu on July 23, 2019, 09:54:25 PM
She takes after daddy. I still can't believe this idiot family is running our country.

Covfefe.