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General Category => The Argument Chamber => Topic started by: Timinator on October 28, 2019, 10:42:17 PM

Title: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Timinator on October 28, 2019, 10:42:17 PM
So you all have your preferences of you like some/none and hope certain ones get in.  Just wondered what peoples views are.  Also the important, whoever does get picked, will you put a tick next to them, or 4 more years of the status quo
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Sssith on October 29, 2019, 09:41:50 AM
As of right now my top choice is Warren.  She was my top choice last time too so maybe I am biased.

At this point I do not want Sanders though I do admire him.  Buttligieg has really impressed.  Biden falls more into a do we have to go there category.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: syn on October 30, 2019, 08:28:50 PM
what Sssith said.

not sure there's anyone that identifies as republican around here any more.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on November 06, 2019, 05:02:38 PM
Warren. I've been on Team Warren for a long time.
Will take Sanders as a consolation prize.

After that it falls off. Booker and Harris maybe. Buttigieg is way down at the bottom just a step above Gabbard.

That said, I'd vote for a turnip if it had (D) next to it and the (R) was Trump or Pence.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Timinator on November 06, 2019, 05:17:30 PM
who remembers Ficus for congress? https://www.democracynow.org/2000/6/7/ficus_for_congress

In some way you have the same type of issue the UK does with a series of winner take all elections vs a % of votes for the whole country really mattering.  Bring on popular vote = president!
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: mn4nu on November 06, 2019, 08:28:36 PM
I'm not super excited about any of them.  I don't really want Biden because he's like 100 and he seems half in the ground sometimes.  Warren or Sanders would be my top choices, but I really am scared people wouldn't vote for them and we'd be stuck with the big A-hole again.

I just want Trump to lose, and lose badly.

Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on November 07, 2019, 05:05:44 PM
And now enter Bloomberg because more rich old white men is exactly what we wanted.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: syn on November 07, 2019, 05:32:42 PM
nm. thought he was launching a 3rd party bid. he's welcome to run for the primary. still think he's only doing it because he's scared of warren. so long as he doesn't split the anti-trump vote in the general election, i don't give a shit what he does.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: mn4nu on November 08, 2019, 08:23:28 AM
so long as he doesn't split the anti-trump vote in the general election, i don't give a shit what he does.
This.  He better not split votes or else we're screwed.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on November 08, 2019, 04:23:54 PM
If he decides to run as 3rd party, that's what will happen.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Timinator on January 13, 2020, 05:51:56 PM
Every now and then I hear from Trump supporters, things that remind me of people who didn't want John McCain president, is he too old, risk of dying, position stuff.   

Just found it interesting is all.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: syn on January 20, 2020, 08:23:07 PM
Quote
Klobuchar with the Midwest power move of cutting the endorsement in half rather than taking the whole thing

LOL

(wrt the NYT editorial endorsing both her and Warren)
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Sssith on January 20, 2020, 09:25:42 PM
That seems like an odd choice to back both of them.

I get what they are trying to do but they fail in the need to actually have an opinion.  It is the weirdest endorsement that I have ever read and it does make me wonder if our system is more broken than I thought.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Timinator on February 12, 2020, 04:23:36 PM
So hows it going now?  I hear 2 dropped out recently, a guy Yang I'd heard of, and someone else I'd never heard of.   Now I see another I didn't recognise is out too.  I've looked at a list and reckon that Tom guy will go next.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on February 12, 2020, 08:08:16 PM
Still going. But still very early. Only 2 states down. Like 53 or 55 primaries left to go (states + territories).

Tom Steyer will stay a while. He has money to burn.

Buttigieg and Biden need to GTFO though. The first because he's a fuckwad and the second because he's just gumming up the works.

Not a fan of Klobuchar either.

And Bloomberg can piss off.

I'm on Team Warren, but I'll accept Sanders.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Timinator on February 12, 2020, 09:27:06 PM
Well when November comes you basically have to chose, 4 years of Trump (assuming he doesn't die of natural causes) or someone in the other party that isn't Trump.    There will be many who don't have their favourite get their name on it.  Hopefully you write in the good box.

There is a phrase in politics here about "eating dead rats"  Something you'd been against in the past, hurts and is uncomfortable to change your position, but sometimes you have to do it as its the lesser evil.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on February 13, 2020, 06:01:27 AM
I don't think we need to be reminded what's on the line. And don't take my dislike of any of the democrats (even if DINO) as "I'd rather have the orange shitgibbon."

I mean, VBNMW is a thing, yknow? I hope it holds true for everyone who is sick of Trump's shit.

(Vote Blue No Matter Who)
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Sssith on February 13, 2020, 02:50:03 PM
Biden is looking shaky.  Buttigieg is doing better than expected.  I am hoping for Warren, but she is also looking shaky.  At the end of the day I would take any of them over Trump.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: mn4nu on February 13, 2020, 03:02:05 PM
Trump might cancel the election at the rate he's going, what with all the dictator shit he's doing now.  Republicans would let him too.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on February 13, 2020, 04:50:18 PM
Biden is looking shaky.  Buttigieg is doing better than expected.  I am hoping for Warren, but she is also looking shaky.  At the end of the day I would take any of them over Trump.

Biden is banking on SC carrying him. May or may not pan out, depends if his black support holds up.

Buttigieg only did well in the most whitebread states. He should fall apart in short order and probably be done by Super Tuesday. At least, I hope so. Only Bloomberg is more detestable (but still better than Trump). Well, no. Tulsi is worse. But she's done.

Warren is okay, as long as her supporters don't give in to the "oops, IA and NH were bad, better switch teams!" hysteria (which is largely being fueled by Bernie Bros trying to undermine her support). Her strategy is pretty hyper-focused like she is on everything, and she's not sweating. I won't start worrying unless after Super Tuesday.

Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: syn on February 13, 2020, 06:28:13 PM
The Bernie bros are pretty off-putting. Bunch of stories about dirty tricks in Nevada right now. Hard to tell if it’s from the campaign or elsewhere, but it doesn’t make me happy about sanders. Also seeing lots of chatter about Bloomberg. People are desperate to beat trump... was bemused yesterday when I was talking to my 9 yr old about all the candidates and when I mentioned bloomberg, she volunteered “Mike can get it done!”  She said she’s seen his ads on YouTube. Clearly money well spent.

On board with VBNMW.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: syn on February 20, 2020, 10:07:21 AM
mike didn't get it done.

warren and bloomberg in the nevada debate (https://gfycat.com/everlastingskeletalbengaltiger)
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Sssith on February 20, 2020, 10:30:40 AM
lol...Warren was pretty savage.  Bloomberg did not come off well.  Not sure how he was not better prepared for the debate.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: syn on February 20, 2020, 11:45:26 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERMWymPU4AA-b3F?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Sssith on February 20, 2020, 02:13:35 PM
You got to love those types of edits.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on February 20, 2020, 04:44:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/qY6B05W.png)
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Timinator on February 20, 2020, 04:50:43 PM
dead link
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on February 20, 2020, 05:43:27 PM
Fixed?
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Timinator on February 20, 2020, 08:01:55 PM
yes, but i already saw on FB ;) an exciting year ahead
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Sssith on February 20, 2020, 11:19:40 PM
That is pretty loltastic.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Timinator on February 23, 2020, 04:17:27 PM
So Bernie is doing well so far.

One comment as an outsider and partly what i see from some people on Facebook, your current system for Healthcare is just broken, and while people talk about trying to improve/fix it there are a lot of options.  Its one thing to just say "capitalism is broken" but there are plenty of capitalist countries that don't screw you over if you are sick or have a preexisting condition.   

How much of it is a desire to get away from capitalism, vs far right people who think "if you want change then you can't be capitalist/AMERICAN" (lol) I'm not sure.  Look at the NHS in the UK among many things.

I'm part of a few private facebook groups for diseases etc.  Most people talk about the disease/symptoms etc.  For Americans its a mix of that, but a heavy focus on insurance/coverage, but also "which clinic do you go to and who is your surgeon etc".    In some ways I can understand wanting the best treatment, but for my 3 surgeries over the last 3 years I was just happy to have a trained and competent surgeon.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Timinator on March 01, 2020, 07:32:53 PM
Tom Steyer will stay a while. He has money to burn.

I called it that he would be the next to withdraw, I see Pete is now out too, which makes me a bit sad in a way.

I predict Amy will drop out next ..
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on March 01, 2020, 08:41:00 PM
I see Pete is now out too, which makes me a bit sad in a way.

Pete is awful and it's good that he is out.

Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Timinator on March 03, 2020, 07:07:05 PM
*chewing popcorn*.  In other countries I sometimes follow elections, more like following a sporting event, you have your one you prefer and like to see them get over the line, but if they don't, oh well. 

This though is something I haven't followed as closely before.  so far both Bloomberg and Warren trailing, but early days
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: syn on March 03, 2020, 09:12:22 PM
(https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/3rbxa6.jpg?w=575)
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Timinator on March 03, 2020, 09:19:21 PM
Why is Minnesota special?
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on March 03, 2020, 10:08:53 PM
Why is Minnesota special?

Before Klob dropped out, Biden wasn't expected to get a single delegate there.

Her last-minute endorsement apparently made all the difference.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Timinator on March 03, 2020, 10:16:37 PM
ah, i'm seeing talk of his result in South Carolina helping with momentum, even in places where he had hardly spent anything. 
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Darkness on March 10, 2020, 05:51:02 AM
I'm disappointed I've seen so much pro-Warren commentary and pro-Biden. Of the two, I'd rather Warren was still in but, its frustrating to think anyone progressive would choose her over Bernie.
That anyone would choose Biden over Bernie is kinda crazy.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: syn on March 10, 2020, 09:22:25 AM
apparently people think biden's a stronger candidate against trump than bernie would be. after the last week, i think that's likely true. beating trump is objective number 1, all else is secondary. practical, not crazy.





Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Darkness on March 10, 2020, 11:55:36 AM
apparently people think biden's a stronger candidate against trump than bernie would be. after the last week, i think that's likely true. beating trump is objective number 1, all else is secondary. practical, not crazy.

Sadly that's just race to the bottom politics and is likely to go the same way for Biden as it did for Hilary. People want change.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on March 10, 2020, 04:22:13 PM
I'm disappointed I've seen so much pro-Warren commentary and pro-Biden. Of the two, I'd rather Warren was still in but, its frustrating to think anyone progressive would choose her over Bernie.
That anyone would choose Biden over Bernie is kinda crazy.

I would take Warren day after day after day over Bernie. Sorry.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Sssith on March 10, 2020, 05:38:03 PM
Warren voter here.  Warren >> Sanders >>>>> Biden.  I think the difference between Warren and Sanders is pretty small overall.  She, to me, is that much more capable.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on March 10, 2020, 05:43:46 PM
I voted for her.

The difference between Warren's and Sander's actual ideas were minor, but I felt she was leagues ahead in actually having sensible, actionable plans for implementation, instead of just "angry old man ranting." She is much more charismatic - people who actually heard her speak almost always came away with a positive impression. She is bright and articulate and easy to listen to. I believe she'd make a more capable and functional leader. And -- no small thing -- she's significantly younger and healthier than Bernie. A few years may not seem like much but at that age, a few years can make a world of difference.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: syn on March 10, 2020, 05:48:22 PM
to modify slightly:

Warren >> Sanders >>>>> Biden >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump.

at this point i just want a unified democratic party going into the general election.


Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on March 10, 2020, 06:53:30 PM
Unfortunately, once Biden wins the nom, I expect a lot of Bernie Bros to sulk their way into either not voting or spite-voting for Trump.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Darkness on March 13, 2020, 10:22:20 AM
Unfortunately, once Biden wins the nom, I expect a lot of Bernie Bros to sulk their way into either not voting or spite-voting for Trump.

Speaking from the perspective of someone who could be considered a "bernie bros" equivalent in UK politics, yes refusing to vote for a candidate I didn't believe in is what I would do.
However, we have more options in the UK as to who to vote for in other parties, so its not as if my vote would be withheld completely.

I am sick and tired of the politics of fear of "must beat this person at all costs" rather than encouraging people to vote for meaningful change. The next UK election will be "beat the Tories at all costs" with Labour as a the front runners but, if I don't like their policies, they won't get my vote.

The main political parties thrive on that sort of politics, relying on that for victory, rather than offering anything palpable.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on March 13, 2020, 02:48:09 PM
Sure, but the bottom line simple truth reality is that Trump must be ousted at all cost. I don't care if someone has to hold their nose and stifle their gag reflex, voting for the only other viable option is the only right choice.

This is not the time for protest votes, non-votes, or 3rd-party irrelevant votes. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

If it were freaking Michael Bloomberg on the ticket, I'd vote for him over the orange buffoon.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Darkness on March 13, 2020, 03:29:19 PM
The same will be said over here in the UK in five years time. I'm not buying it. It will just perpetuate the sorry state of capitalist society we are in. We had this in 1997 when Blair ousted the Tories and what a neoliberal shitshow that turned out to be.

And also, whilst you might deride Bernie Bros sulking and not voting for Biden, the safe money says that plenty of Biden Bitches would sulk and refuse to vote for Bernie as well.
So castigating one party and not the other, seems a little churlish to me.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on March 13, 2020, 04:00:39 PM
I have no respect for "Biden Bitches" that would do the same, either. ;)

Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Timinator on March 22, 2020, 03:19:38 AM
geez Tulsi finally threw the towel in.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Pixie on March 22, 2020, 08:42:45 AM
Yeah I was surprised. I figured she was holding out for the two olds to die of covid-19 and win by  default....
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: mn4nu on March 22, 2020, 09:03:58 AM
Yeah I was surprised. I figured she was holding out for the two olds to die of covid-19 and win by  default....
Best joke I've heard for awhile.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Timinator on April 08, 2020, 06:30:11 PM
Well Bernie has now gone.  I don't know about you, but here the news is very different this last month compared to the month before it.   I wonder if the virus hadn't come along how different things would be, or how much longer he would have kept going?

I think the dems best help for swing voters will be Trump showing how unsuited to office he is.  Hopefully those people think .. do I really want 4 more years of this?
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: Sssith on April 09, 2020, 10:17:39 AM
Time will tell I guess.  From my vantage point he has been a disaster from day 1 and he sadly kept getting worse.  Not easy to continually get worse for three straight years, but he managed it.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: mn4nu on April 09, 2020, 01:58:36 PM
We haven't really heard anything about Biden in the past few weeks.  I know he's done some interviews here and there, but the news really isn't covering him because of the virus.  Meanwhile, we get to see commander idiot every afternoon going on and on with his repetitive BS.  I feel like Trump is getting all the exposure and that could be good or bad.  Good if everyone realizes how much he's messed up the federal response from the start and is now trying to make things up to cover his tracks, or bad if people see it so much they start to believe the BS.  I think Biden really needs to get out there to combat what Trump is doing.

I am really getting sick of Trump ripping on voting by mail.  People really need to attack him on that.  Hell, he votes by mail, so his argument is a joke.
Title: Re: Democratic challengers for next year
Post by: syn on April 14, 2020, 07:29:30 PM
Sanders:
Quote
“I believe that it’s irresponsible for anybody to say, ‘Well, I disagree with Joe Biden—I disagree with Joe Biden!—and therefore I’m not going to be involved.’”
Says notable holdout @briebriejoy “is my former press secretary—not on the payroll.”

ouch..